it's been so fucking cold they actually made a wikipedia page about it

[jackulator]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_North_American_cold_wave

the coldest it got last year where I live is -4 -- once... it's been colder than that seven times already, and we still have february to go...

[HairyChinaman]

Hopefully that little bastard doesn't see his shadow 

I can't take much more of this fucking cold. It's making me absolutely crazy. 

[houseman]

So much for global warming, huh?

[jackulator]

ahhh. don't start that shit 



they've got flooding in England, the glaciers are all disappearing at an alarming rate, we're having hurricanes all the way up in upstate New York, snow in Alabama, draught and wildfires in California are out of control

I will NEVER forgive the people who dubbed this phenomenon 'global warming'. what they should have called it is, "mother nature on crack" or something. or, "pretty much every normal weather pattern for the last couple of hundred years is gonna be fucked up. the climate you've been living in is going to have much more extreme weather than you're used to"

the fact that they called it 'global warming' is really what has enabled the right-wing in this country to let all the steam out of the movement to stop polluting and dumping greenhouse gases into the air, along with fracking, Canadian tar sands, and now the keystone pipeline... 

people still use plastic grocery bags in record numbers even though there's like six or eight Texas-sized garbage islands floating around the seas of the world...

so yeah, if I could go back in time and shoot someone other than just hitler, it'd be whoever named it 'global warming'.

that said, I do get a kick out of saying, "Well you can thank Al Gore for that" whenever anyone says anything about the weather 

as if somehow him making a powerpoint presentation warning people about changing weather was somehow the cause of ALL weather-related phenomena

[stoneeh]

well, this definitely is fucked up: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png

but then again, in the long run it's so meaningless: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/EPICA_temperature_plot.svg/400px-EPICA_temperature_plot.svg.png


we're supposed to have caused all kind of mayhem with our co², and they make us fear that if we do 10% more, it's all over, judgement day. well, if we look here, we see that at some point we've had 10+ times our current co² levels - and life on earth was developing beautifully!

in fact, that co² is exactly what allowed life to develop on this planet in the first place - plants use photosynthesis to split co² into c and o². they use the c (carbon) to form matter (to grow), and the o² is given off into the atmosphere and is the o² that every animal and human needs to breathe. the fact that co² was so abundant back then is what provided ideal conditions for complex life to form on this planet

"global warming" is an agenda, a business. and as jack already has stated, takes away attention from the real pollution

[jackulator]

what your graphs leave out is the timeframe at which there is rapid warming/cooling...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

but I'm curious -- what's the agenda? who's making a killing of of us not burning hydrocarbons if we decide to go that way.

sorry, but I don't see how it benefits anyone to do things the way we've been doing them than the stockholders of companies like Exxon Mobil... 

THAT's the agenda. in my opinion.

[stoneeh]

well, in the history of life on this planet, there were countless events in which the same amount or more of co² was put into the atmosphere in a day, than we have managed during the last century. meteors, supervolcanoes, you name it

none of the known mass extinctions are associated with these events. in fact most mass extinctions took at least several thousand years

so fucking chill everyone.. literally.. 

[HairyChinaman]

  Well my Dad is waaaay into the whole conspiracy deal, and his claim is that people like Al Gore are making a ton of money climbing aboard the global warming train.

Also, THE CHARITIES INVOLVED WITH CARBON EMISSION REDUCTION ARE FRAUDS, AND YOUR MONEY IS GOING TO CRIMINALLY FRAUDULENT ORGANIZATIONS FUCK GOD FUCK JESUS KILL THEM, EVERY LAST ONE UNTIL THEY'RE ALL DEAD!!

Seriously though, that is a legitimate movement 

[stoneeh]

if i wanna make a point here is that there is no way to be certain that increased co² actually means a negative outcome for this planet. it hasnt in the past, and co² along with h²o is what enabled life on this planet on the first place

but what use for the planet are (as jack has stated) garbage islands floating in the sea, or heavy metals flowing into the sea, or all these other chemicals, or methane or various sulfur gasses into the air. or for that matter, that we overproduce food and dump it into the ocean instead of sending it to africa where it's badly needed. or that a certain superpower keeps bombing the middle east. why dont we concentrate on these issues first (that are by the way considerably easier to address)?

[jackulator]

I'm not saying we're damaging the earth in some way by warming it up -- just fucking with the natural rhythms of nature -- making things that are supposed to happen over thousands of years take place in a couple of decades

any rapid change on a system as large and complex as the biosphere has consequences, especially for all of the inhabitants, most of whom aren't equipped to deal with rapid changes in their environment

[CallMeBronco]

I spent two whole days shoveling ICE, not snow, and I think I hurt my back real bad, I'm dizzy, I need a doctor 

we got nothing but ice this last time and it took two hours to shovel what took 10 minutes before.... 


---------
on the whole global warming debate I pretty much side with Micheal Critchon, in that, namely I don't really have a clue what the hell's going on. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/VJJsDtSHjdE&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/VJJsDtSHjdE&rel=0</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qOu8akBowTg&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/qOu8akBowTg&rel=0</a>

[jackulator]

yeah for me all of this has nothing to do with harming 'The Earth' in any way, shape, or form.

more that the weather is gonna get really screwy, and changes are gonna happen a lot faster than they do naturally, which is bad for any species on earth that doesn't adapt to changing climate well. people are one of those. yes, we can turn the heat up, or the air conditioning up, but you look at states like North Carolina that aren't used to getting snow -- they get a little snow and suddenly there are thousands of people stranded all over the highways for 10-12 hours, kids sleeping at their schools because the roads aren't cleared...

it's basically gonna fuck a lot of shit up, including hurricanes reaching areas they typically didn't when those cities were built.

so yeah -- man-made climate change, not 'global warming' is the issue. and it's not about harming the earth, it's about changing the climate so drastically and so quickly that it's going to cause a variety of damage. some species may even go extinct as a result.

and the only people I listen to on this matter are the experts -- 96% of whom agree this is a man-made phenomenon

wikipedia: "No scientific body of national or international standing maintains a formal opinion dissenting from any of these main points."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

the earth's weather is a complex study in fluid dynamics... something I've learned a little about this winter. I live in a drafty shack with very little insulation, so my heaters aren't enough to keep my entire room warm. I have to move my fan and my propane heater all around the room to see where I can point the two in order to make my bed area or my desk area warm, depending on if I'm sitting at the computer, or if I'm going to bed... and it's counterintuitive a lot of times. the directions and locations for the heater and fan. nature moves toward equilibrium, but when you have a massive heat source like a propane heater that heat after a while is going to settle somewhere, and keep that area warm. so to move that hot area to different places you have to tinker.

the same thing is happening with global weather. freezing cold air from the polar region is finding its way to the eastern U.S. -- because warm air is pushing it there from somewhere it didn't used to come from. so you have warm temperatures way up north, and freezing fucking cold temperatures in new england... 

so yes the planet is warming, but the warming itself isn't the problem as much as the resulting chaotic weather.

[1972 Canyon Dr]

Hey Bronco, have you read State of Fear?  Crichton has a totally different take on Global Warming than just about everyone I've heard of.  No matter what we do as humans to combat an environment challenge, no matter how good the intentions, we end up making the situation even worse because there's so many variables involved that there's no way for us to account for it. I think he used the importing of deer in Yosimitie as an example - with good intentions we completely disrupted the ecology of the area.

[houseman]

Whats more is that people make wide predictions that never come true.  I remember hearing as a child, among other things, that:

   "We are going to run out of oil in 15 years!"

   "In 15 years, it is going to be so hot out that you won't be able to go outside!"

Well, here we are more than 15 years later and a whole lot of things haven't come true.  This makes me really wonder about the IPCC and their wide prediction that even if we completely change our lifestyle and stop emitting carbon, the climate change will be catastrophic.  I wonder if any of these climate alarmist really know what they are talking about.

Further, I think allot of these so called "scientists" that are "on board" with the IPCC really just set out to prove the things they already believed from the beginning.  Remember climategate and the scientist trying to "hide the decline".  That is shitty science.  You really should base findings on physical evidence.  Then again, statistics never lie, but lairs always use statistics.

[CallMeBronco]

yeah I pretty much agree with 1972 Canyon Dr  and houseman. I read part of State of Fear but never finished 
anyway yeah that whole speech on fear and global warming is really eye-opening if you've never considered these things before. I particularly love it when he mentions Y2K. Nobody even remembers that anymore.  Remember? everybody thought the world was going to end!  What really happened "..essentially nothing" 
--------------
in other news I've been locked in doors for days now cause I fucked up my back and I'm going stir crazy. Except for one instance on the other day in which I had to go to the bank but I hadn't shoveled all of my driveway but I couldn't do it anymore so I just tried to do without it. My car was stuck in the ice, not stuck like the wheels spun but the wheels were literally FROZEN SOLID to the ground  So I had to floor the pedal to break free then my car went sailing down my driveway and into my neighbors yard and broke a fence. 


Fortunately my neighbor is a sweet old lady who doesn't care about anything so I don't think she minded. Her house is falling apart anyway 

[jackulator]

hahaha bronco -- that's fucking weird though. never heard of a car actually getting frozen to the ground 

[CallMeBronco]

hahaha bronco -- that's fucking weird though. never heard of a car actually getting frozen to the ground 

well I guess it helped that I didn't shovel that foot of snow around 3/4 of  the sides of my car 
we got ice, then snow, then ice again, now tonight we just got more snow yet again. 
my grandparents have been out of electric for four days, they just got it back last night. A tree broke into pieces in my other neighbor's yard. considering I guess I'm lucky, we weren't out of power only a few minutes. I heard they were brining electric workers from Canada to help. 

JESUS CHRIST! 

[jackulator]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/02/09/new-interactive-map-shows-what-earth-will-look-like-when-all-the-ice-melts/

whadya think? looks like some kind of weird alien country.
 

[stoneeh]

houseman.. i can remember when it was "global warming". when the warming stopped it just became "climate change". pretty convenient.

[CallMeBronco]

well from the looks of that map most of us will be ok. but Florida's fucked 

seriously though... like Micheal Crichton and others; I DO think Global warming is an issue that we should at leas tthink about or WAS an issue. I've heard people say it's already being corrected, thought I don't quite understand how.... it's just that there are more pressing issues. And Critchon's main point, in one video a tear faced point, is that everyday we let hundreds of people die of starvation while we worry about what's going to happen 100 years from now.... I always think, if aliens looked down on us they'd think we're pretty foolish and blind-sighted.